Saturday, November 13, 2010

At What Cost Truth-- Regarding Bonnie & Clyde History??

If you look closely at this famous photo-- you'll note the expressions of hardened criminals. But embedded deep within those matter of fact looks, which include the heartfelt elements of love and camaraderie-- are the hopes & dreams of 2 young people which would never be realized. As many interested in this history, just focus on Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow the notorious outlaws-- their human sides are often overlooked. But just as sharks circle their prey-- within that human light, rumors have swirled for decades around Bonnie Parker, Clyde Barrow and other members of The Barrow Gang. And somehow, this fascination into Bonnie & Clyde's personal sides-- doesn't much involve mundane things, like topics of interest they liked to discuss, things they found funny or games they chose to amuse themselves with.

No-- somehow for Bonnie & Clyde, it's their most intimate details which seem most desirable to know. Was Clyde a dysfunctional homosexual?? Was Bonnie an insatiable nymphomaniac?? Were both Bonnie & Clyde aided by Barrow Gang members such as W. D. Jones and Henry Methvin,
not only in support of their day to day struggles for survival-- but also for more nefarious needs as well?? And according to Dr. James Wade who examined Bonnie & Clyde in death, both had Gonorrhea. As that account's apparently true, how do you reconcile that fact-- and therefore determine who else if anyone, was involved sexually with Bonnie or Clyde or both?? And in the larger scheme of this history, are those most personal of details which so many long to know-- even useful or important??

Bonnie was said to have become pregnant with her husband Roy Thornton?? But she had an abortion right?? No-- it was a miscarriage?? No-- it was some procedure that went wrong, that left her unable to bear children?? But what about Bonnie when ambushed-- she was pregnant then wasn't she?? No-- the families say that's wrong. Bonnie was never pregnant-- as "surely" the families would have known. But as reportedly related in an interview before her death-- Blanche Barrow who "was" in a position to comment, apparently said Bonnie had never been pregnant. That would have included all years prior to Blanche being captured in July of '33-- but not the months afterward, leading to the May 1934 ambush. As such, Blanche's expression concerning her knowledge of Bonnie-- could call into question, family explanations of why Bonnie in later years couldn't become pregnant-- (The Roy Thornton Defense).

But if the family is right, and Bonnie couldn't have been pregnant-- then how do you explain the numerous and unrelated accounts of a Bonnie pregnancy within just months of her death??-- some of which were related directly by those who shared their homes and meals and time-- with Bonnie & Clyde in Louisiana near the end. There were apparently even contingencies discussed-- women standing by to care for Bonnie's baby, while she was presumed in need of future help while still on the run. Such a keen preparedness, would be unnecessary for a woman who couldn't bear children. In addition other evidence exists pointing to this reality, not only from reliable and well regarded people in Texas who reported a Doctor was said to have been treating Bonnie-- but also it seems from an individual close enough to Bonnie & Clyde, to have appeared in photos with them and who shared their escapades in cheating death day to day in 1934. Thus as an offset to long held beliefs on the part of many-- could it be that one well placed individual, may have known the truth better than Bonnie & Clyde's own families??

And what about Clyde-- he wasn't said to be impotent but he was sterile?? It was Scarlett Fever and the Mumps that did in a young Clyde, from the point of view of his ability to father a child. Who was it again, who confirmed Clyde was tested and found to be sterile?? Without proof or documentation, perhaps it was just assumed Clyde's illnesses netted that result-- within a story passed down without question. And has anyone bothered to check, what possibility there was in the 1930's-- for a young man in having experienced this combination of maladies, to have become sterile?? Well I have-- and it doesn't seem as large a likelihood, as some might have you believe. Then of course there's that troublesome W. D. Jones, who reported that before meeting Bonnie-- Clyde had gotten a girl in a family way. Surely you wouldn't think W. D. could have known anything about Clyde, that others close to him didn't. Could he??

Bonnie never had children-- not with Roy not with Clyde, not with anyone-- and as such not with W. D. Jones?? But what about Grace Davies?? Could Grace possibly be right, in believing that she's the daughter of W. D. and Bonnie?? And some have asked-- Winston, what are you doing lending credence to Grace by reporting her story?? To those folks I would say-- a careful read of my expose' on this case, and you might ask yourselves what support I've provided in critically examining this story?? But unfortunately for those with narrow mindsets toward Bonnie & Clyde History-- there "are" some key and unanswered questions within the Grace Davies mystery-- some quite important ones, that from my point of view need to be explained.

This foreword, in highlighting so many controversial and unresolved Bonnie & Clyde mysteries-- is meant as a lead in to the topic of this post-- At What Cost Truth-- Regarding Bonnie & Clyde History?? Many would ask what difference does innuendo make to the reputations of Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow?? Hell-- for some who despise the very thought of Bonnie & Clyde, they might well ask who cares?? For those who believe these West Dallas desperadoes, were just hell bound murdering marauders to begin with-- I doubt there would exist much concern. Then there are those like myself and I trust many of you, who possess an intense interest in this history-- and who are genuinely predisposed, to learning the truth about Bonnie & Clyde, no matter where that truth may lead.

As I view it, just as with many famous people-- there are varying degrees of caring, diligence and competence-- regarding how historical inquiries are conducted in seeking truth regarding Bonnie & Clyde. Also as many realize who've attempted research within the realm of this enigmatic history, the levels of insight into these iconic desperadoes-- are often complicated by a sheer lack of reliable information and verifiable fact. As such, sometimes sorting through Bonnie & Clyde History is a bit like walking blindfolded in the dark. The path you think you know, with information you've trusted in having been chronicled over the years-- upon further review, may not be as true as once thought. And I don't believe it's as stretch to say, that many facts regarding this history, unfortunately-- may never be known.

Logically you would think, family resources and associations might yield the most reliable insights into Bonnie & Clyde. But in fairness, that seems to depend on the extent those alive today can comment-- based on their knowledge of those who've lived before them. In many cases, we're now 3 generations removed from those who lived and interacted with members of The Barrow Gang. And as has been admitted to in recorded interviews, as well as through family admissions I've witnessed 1st hand-- as it's known those alive today were deliberately sheltered from Bonnie & Clyde insights, by many who lived when this history unfolded-- the families' knowledge as it exists today seems limited.

Sometimes within Bonnie & Clyde History, no matter how hard you try-- you can end up damned if you do and damned if you don't. And when you find yourself as I have on occasion-- within the useless realm of historical hell, where some who don't even give a damn about history, prefer to spend their time and attempt to spend mine-- by spreading hate and shooting at the messenger cowardly and anonymously, from behind a shield of loyal tidings, self righteousness and fictitious names-- rather than consider contrary historical possibilities through productive and legitimate research-- I would ask what are some afraid of?? That new and perhaps uncomfortable possibilities concerning Bonnie & Clyde become known?? That sacred beliefs regarding these outlaws be challenged?? That those related to Bonnie & Clyde nearly 80 years after the fact, are made aware of ongoing curiosities regarding these outlaws-- that likely will never go away. I don't think many would disagree, that unfortunately Bonnie & Clyde themselves-- assured the world and their families of that reality, through their actions long ago.

Perhaps some would prefer, that all knowledge of this history be frozen at some point in time-- and not explored any more than is known. That way, certain images of these outlaws could be preserved as if through cryogenics-- and some Bonnie & Clyde loyalties whether real or perceived, could perpetuate themselves within a closed circle of self importance. I view my "independence" in researching and reporting Bonnie & Clyde History-- to be my greatest strength, in attempting to learn the truth. However for some-- it appears that an impressive level of Bonnie & Clyde close mindedness, is somehow viewed as an advantage. It seems for those who proudly pledge their allegiance to what might as well be called The Bonnie & Clyde Head in Sand Society-- all is good, nothing needs to be challenged-- and "damn" those who would go so far as to question, long cherished Bonnie & Clyde beliefs.

As a response I must say, that my recent investigation concerning Bonnie, W. D. and Grace Davies-- has me thinking of Bonnie Parker well outside the box. I now find myself pondering comments which have shaken loose, from some well placed within this history which I never thought I'd hear. Are there indeed secrets concerning Bonnie Parker, which have been well protected over so many decades-- and as such, never been revealed?? Some seem to believe in that possibility. And what exactly did happen to Bonnie, within a much less than well documented 1931??

In getting back to the challenges of exploring this history-- I don't mention it much, but within my Bonnie & Clyde inquiries-- it seems when I tread too closely to hallowed ground where some B&C types feel I shouldn't go, I'll get an occasional threatening e-mail or pointed behind the scenes comment. I find that remarkable, but sadly it's true. It's the damnedest thing-- but when I went to bat for Bonnie in battling Jeff Guinn, I received praise and encouragement for defending Bonnie and The Parker Family. These expressions of thanks, included more than one from Bonnie's niece Rhea Leen Linder. However now that I'm digging into areas of uncomfortable or perhaps inconceivable thought for some, concerning a more human Bonnie Parker than her oft angelic image might normally allow-- well then, it seems I've crossed some self imposed line in the sand which rightfully should never be crossed.

It's a good thing I don't buy into these contradictory notions. One one hand, it's good that I defend Bonnie from likes of Jeff Guinn, and his ideas of Bonnie being a prostitute and having been slain by a raging and vengeful Frank Hamer at close range-- in pumping her full of holes from the right side of the death car to avenge Bonnie's brutal, and senseless killings of Officers Murphy and Wheeler at Grapevine. My goodness-- that's a lot of unsubstantiated supposition. I wonder if Jeff has the same sort of hateful comments directed at him, as I receive from "the anonymous ones". In those cases, I defended Bonnie because historically she deserved to be defended-- from dubious allegations which seemed far more sensational than accurate. Based on personal exchanges with Jeff Guinn and in questioning footnotes within his book-- I felt Jeff's diligence was lax in researching these points, and his decision to include these over sensationalized and unsubstantiated assertions within a "True Story" of Bonnie & Clyde-- was a disservice to this history. That's my educated opinion, for what it's worth.

Interestingly, when news of the Bonnie Parker Tijuana Bible "Amputated" hit the fan-- I began hearing more about cracks in the perception of Bonnie being so sweet and innocent. It seems a oversensitivity on the part of some, was evident in defending Bonnie from this scourge of an idea-- that Bonnie's own actions could have in any way formed the impetus, for such a sordid parody being created concerning her. I found it interesting to read comments critical of Bonnie's most avid supporters, revolving around the idea that perhaps a more discerning view into Bonnie Parker is not a bad thing-- and so what if Bonnie's not found to be the "precious angel" so many view her as. The point of these admonishments, was to highlight the fact that Bonnie was human-- and perhaps in reality wasn't the perfect young lady many believe her to be. The idea was even advanced, that perhaps Bonnie sought the outlaw life-- and that Clyde Barrow provided the conduit for that opportunity. I must say-- that's an interesting twist I had never thought of before.

It seems at least partially because of "Amputated"-- a new willingness to examine Bonnie beyond the legend, is being discussed. I cant tell you which came first, the Bonnie rumors or the Bonnie Tijuana Bible (although historically it would be good to know)-- but I myself, would rather trust in truths concerning the "real" Bonnie Parker-- than in 1/2 truths built upon an image supported by incomplete knowledge. As such until proven otherwise, I still see no real evidence to support either of the 2 major Bonnie & Clyde sexual rumors being true. Some may wish them to be true, but that seems another issue unrelated to Bonnie & Clyde.

It's not at all remarkable, that people do very human things. Contrary to what some might believe, beyond the myths and legends-- Bonnie & Clyde were indeed human and as such were fallible. But how much change from B&C's long held images, is too much change in the eyes of some?? For example, through many documented accounts, I believe we now know with a good sense of certainty-- that Bonnie swore a good bit. Apparently the sweet young lady, was prone to curse when unhappy. So is that a trait that might forever disrupt someone's image of Bonnie?? Perhaps. But at least, as it seems now-- that would be a true image.

Would it also be a stretch to say, that as sexual active young people on the run with little time to live-- that Bonnie & Clyde may have run a bit free and loose concerning that aspect of their lives?? Bonnie was also said to have loved children. Could it be, that if possible-- Bonnie would want her dream of having a child realized as well?? That is, unless all who say they know better are correct-- that she and Clyde could never have conceived a child?? Or that neither of them had children, before loving one another. But contrary to what some believe or wish to believe-- I'm not sure at this point, the evidence that exists at least of the time near the ambush-- doesn't support a different story. But whether or not there's enough evidence to be conclusive, may be in the eye of the beholder. As far as accepting B&C as they actually were versus the image some have of them-- for me it's easy to say there "was" a reality to this history and for those who lived it. Sometimes it seems emotions come into play with Bonnie & Clyde, where really they shouldn't. But that's human nature-- especially regarding all the dynamics of this story, involving these individuals and the times in which they lived.

And what about Kent Biffle's reported comment made to Grace Davies, concerning an intimated Bonnie Parker?? Well just as in the movie A Christmas Story, when Ralphie didn't say "fudge"-- according to Grace, Kent didn't call Bonnie a "bore"-- but rather a term which sounds remarkably like it. What did this seasoned Dallas reporter with presumably many contacts over the years, perhaps know about Bonnie Parker?? Was/is there an undercurrent of secret knowledge regarding Bonnie & Clyde-- that's never been brought to light??

But I would also ask-- why some choose to take up the cause, of attempting to suppress even the possibility of new Bonnie & Clyde info coming to light?? In my view, although it may be admirable to protect certain individuals from perhaps uncomfortable investigations into these outlaws-- no one should presume to have the right to conduct self righteous crusades of blatant impoliteness and censorship because of it. I don't believe this history is going away any time soon-- and based on the activity within this B&C forum, where nearly 1000 hits in one day have been registered here from all over the world-- it seems interest in Bonnie & Clyde remains strong where ever they are thought of. And although this is not a comment only forum, I appreciate very much when comments are expressed here.

Note-- As I've already had this fact questioned by those with little better to do, I went back and checked. I apologize for being just 13 hits off. The B&CHB which routinely receives strong activity daily from many corners of the world-- experienced a 987 hit day on February 10th of this year. Also the next visitor from any new country, will add the 103rd country or territory-- to the list of those areas of the world who have come here, in search of Bonnie & Clyde truth.

As a side note I would say, what some don't realize in addressing me sometimes in less than respectful ways-- is that once I sense inappropriate comments within messages directed toward myself or this blog-- those comments are usually erased unread. I suppose some feel by expressing crass comments, they will affect some change in my behavior toward this history. But as Romper Room is now so many decades removed from our psyches-- I have no time to play the useless games others seem to thrive on.

I'm more interested in doing all I can, to help those who wish to know the truth concerning Bonnie & Clyde History. I'm focused on bringing to light, interesting and little known aspects of this history-- as well as attempting to sort out certain Bonnie & Clyde truths from rumors, which are often inquired of. I also wish to dispel if I can, B&C rumors which I feel have been perpetuated erroneously over the years. My investigations as always-- are objective, fair and diligently researched. So for those who would rather not have Bonnie defended from the likes of those who would wrongly slander her and as such alter this history-- not have new Bonnie & Clyde knowledge from Billie's journal and her unpublished manuscript-- not have the advantage of numerous Blanche Barrow items and correspondence to view and learn from-- not have important W. D. Jones info now corrected-- not have new Bonnie & Clyde hostage info brought to light-- not know the truth concerning Millie Stamps along with many other Bonnie & Clyde insights as found here-- there's always that magical choice, of not visiting The B&CHB. For everyone else, as always-- my sincere "thanks" for your continued support.

So what really did happen to Bonnie in 1931?? Why is that seemingly the only year within this saga, with so little known about her??-- and how might that truth relate if it does, to the Grace Davies claim?? Did the law knowingly shoot not just an outlaw woman in 1934-- but a pregnant Bonnie Parker?? And is that why some within the ambush posse, seemingly couldn't handle their remaining years without self destructing?? Did The Barrow Gang make plans to leave The United States, as related to a Bonnie pregnancy?? As there seems to be a credible source who reportedly said Bonnie & Clyde did consider such plans-- what is to be made of that knowledge within this history?? What "were" Frank Hamer's actions at the death car, after the ambush posse shooting en mass stopped??-- and which ambush account is correct?? And why is it-- that the Henderson Jordan Memorial Park Plague in Arcadia, LA.-- may still lack any reference to the historic contributions of Prentiss Oakley-- the man generally recognized as having killed Clyde Barrow??

So at what cost truth-- regarding Bonnie & Clyde History?? Sometimes the cost can be high-- but within the realm of reality and respect, hopefully the truth can be learned without hurting others. As I see it, there's still much to do within Bonnie & Clyde History. So with or without unanimous consent, and with my thanks to so many-- we move forward. I dedicate this post to Rick Mattix, as I feel he would approve of it's content.

BTW-- How dare anyone choose to use the tragedy of Rick Mattix's death against me, in drawing disparaging comparisons between Rick and myself. Rick Mattix was a fine Historian, a gentleman and a friend of mine. What a low and despicable thing to do, which exemplifies the twisted mentality of some within this history.


dave said...

Keep digging, Winston. With the choice of the unwavering, intelligent, and persistence in finding the truth, compared to the "narrow minded, Romper Room" gang, I thank God for the prior choice! Screw the Boogie man. Dig man,dig!

Frances said...

Winston, you are a professional researcher and only want to find the truth. If Bonnie was actually pregnant at the time, it would have been hushed up as much as possible. In the 1930's, a child out of wedlock would have been a family secret. Maybe the family didn't even know. It's interesting how the LA women were making plans to help Bonnie. Only an exhumation might solve the mystery, but there's little chance of that! Keep up the great work!

BarefootOkieGal said...

Just hang in there and keep bringing us information as you find it! While I can understand that maintaining connections with those who are in the best position to know the truth is important to you in your quest, at the same time you keep running into the problem of having to fight to introduce new and perhaps previously unknown information to people who are in no way inclined to change their minds about some things. Well - that's fine, a person's got a perfect right to develop their own viewpoint on something and then cling to it - but I don't think it's right for anyone to obstruct YOUR right to gather information, whether that information jibes with the "official family line" or not.

Families don't always know everything that their family members were up to. Families are often loathe to reveal details they find embarrassing or shameful. While a person's family might be the logical source for information of some types, there are better sources for information of other types. I'm sure there are lots of things about most people that even their close family members don't know all about, and I'm sure that Bonnie and Clyde, caring about their families as they did, would NOT share with them every single detail, not wanting to hurt them or to spare them even a little pain and worry.

I am not saying the families are wrong, and I can understand their disgust with having been put under a microscope for years and surrounded by morbid curiosity-seekers; however, I don't think it's right to block any truth-seekers - even if the truth is unpleasant, well, the fact is that the families have had to live with a lot of unpleasant things that they KNOW about, and honestly, if I were to discover something bizarre about my own long-lost family members, I'd just take it as something interesting that I didn't know before ("Huh! Well, that would explain why none of Uncle Billy-Bob's kids look like him....)and not automatically take offense. It's just been so long since any of their pecadillos for me to take them personally, but perhaps it's different when your family has made the newspapers... I know some of my ancestors were pretty embarrassing, but I don't know if anyone ever wrote about them!

A. Winston Woodward said...

Maintaining certain connections within B&C History, has never been of primary importance to me. However I respect many of these individuals greatly, and always thank them for their assistance. I also have my share of other contacts within this history, which I also respect and appreciate very much.

Although some connections may be desirable, they can also be a hindrance. If info is provided with all good graces and no strings attached-- that's fine. But sometimes, the access to info comes with some heavy weights attached. It's a good point to note, that some contacts may actually be too close to the action-- to provide objective information.

Some researchers have owed a lot to the families over the years, in providing info for books etc. So when phone calls are made, asking those researchers not to help others-- who are delving into areas they'd rather not face, as I see it-- the families and some around them are hindering independent research. Plus groups such as this are cliques-- whom it seems, try their best to control views only they feel are valid within this history-- and attempt to malign those with differing views and/or who are on the outs with them.

Well the good thing for those who follow my research into Bonnie & Clyde History-- is that I don't give 2 hoots or a holler to play the games others would like me to play. I have no interest in being part of any particular groups, and as such-- thankfully I'm not at anyone's mercy. I can't see how being wrapped up in some controlled arena of self importance-- is useful in determining the truth within B&C History.

Sometimes, the lone wolf can cover more ground-- than a pack of even the best of friends and followers.

BarefootOkieGal said...

That's why I enjoy your blog so much, Winston - you don't let anyone tell you what you should say, and you tell it as it is. I applaud the lone wolf and your dedication to exposing the truth!

Russ1934 said...

"Sometimes, the lone wolf can cover more ground-- than a pack of even the best of friends and followers."

Well put, Winston! I sometimes see myself as a lone wolf. You have my utmost respect and admiration for the way you research this history!


Anonymous said...

One thing is for sure regarding Bonnies being pregnant and that is, we will never ever know the truth, I do not believe she was pregnant but that does not mean everyone else { who ever that may be} will stop trying to find out otherwise, it is a dead issue, all those involved are dead so anything said now is just mearly hearsay and cannot be proven to be true,the only real person who can shed light on this { Rhea leen } said it best, a positive NO she was never pregnant and thats good enough for me, if anyone would know it would be her, but there will always be people who like to push the ticket and act as though Rhea leen does not know what she is talking about, I am not one of these people, I fully believe her, I mean really, if she was ever pregnant in her life we as well as everyone else would have known about it by now, I can understand how some folks would like to think they have found some new info on this but the cold hard truth is there is none, and if you think you have some then the burden of proof is on you, good luck, I love to research B&C info that is within reason, but this subject is getting a little old.

A. Winston Woodward said...

Although I certainly appreciate your comment, I must politely disagree with your analysis. Rhea Leen herself (whom I respect greatly)-- within interviews and as told to some of us personally-- has admitted to having a limited knowledge concerning much to do with B&C History. And as far as a Bonnie pregnancy being old-- I suppose that determination is in the eye of the beholder.

From my point of view, next to inquiring of the ambush-- the mystery concerning a Bonnie Parker pregnancy?? may be far and away, the most inquired of B&C wondering of the past 76 years. And as such-- that topic cannot be ignored, and is well worth investigating. Also I find no disrespect, in continuing to search toward a conclusion.

I've been looking into this question for close to 2 years now, and believe there is enough evidence to make a run at trying to learn the truth. And based on what I've learned, in no way am I willing to dismiss out of hand-- the possibility that Bonnie was indeed pregnant when killed. I feel to do so, because "anyone" says so-- is being terribly short sighted concerning this history. Open mindedness is better than close mindedness when considering possibilities within history-- wouldn't you agree??

There is some compelling contradictory evidence, which could trump the families beliefs concerning what they feel to be true concerning a Bonnie pregnancy. I say let the chips fall where they may-- and without an inequitable weight being assigned based on family affiliation. That seems the fairest way to look at this.

In truth, the family explanations concerning the lack of possibilities for Clyde & Bonnie to bear children-- lack specifics and verifiable evidence. What exactly was the circumstance or procedure performed on Bonnie when married to Roy Thornton?? Was she trying to become pregnant??-- or was she pregnant at that time?? To believe a reported Blanche interview-- Bonnie was never pregnant prior to Blanche being captured. That of course leaves open the possibility for ambush time. Also who actually tested Clyde, to determine his inability to conceive based on the 2 fairly benign maladies he experienced-- which even in the 1930's, resulted in not as large a result of sterility as many have believed?? Perhaps it was just assumed Clyde became sterile as a teenager?? But of course W.D. might disagree.

Will the smoking gun ever be found, to definitively say whether or not Bonnie Parker was pregnant when killed?? I'm not sure, but that moral dilemma concerning the ambush-- is also of great importance to this history.

I would say for those truly disinterested, or who are perhaps worn out on this subject-- I can respect your point of view. However I'm sure you'll contribute greatly to, and enjoy many other B&C topics of interest along the way. Thanks for your civility-- and thanks for your comment.

Jim from Atlanta said...

Dear Winston,

Re: Was Bonnie Pregnant on the day she died?

Lets examine what we know--she reported to several Methvin family members that she was pregnant. Jordan was told of this statement. However, she also may have been suffering from stress.

Stress, whether it is caused by a dangerous situation, relationship problems, difficult work or other external factors, can wreak havoc on the menstrual system. This is because when the body is placed under stress, it secretes cortisol. This hormone diminishes the release of estrogen and progesterone, which are the hormones necessary for regular menstrual cycles to take place.

If she were pregnant, I believe the morticians would have broadcast that news as well as the family to create greater sympathy for Bonnie's untimely demise.

Just my humble assumption--your friend, Jim

A. Winston Woodward said...


There's more believed known now than has been published, and I've spent considerable time over the past few years trying to sort this out. I don't believe stress has much to do with this. There are more clues evident now, than just a short number of years back-- including a statement said made by a Barrow Gang member about Bonnie's pregnancy, and where B&C were going to deal with it.

Elements of a Bonnie pregnancy??-- are not just about what we think we've known in the past. They're now about more than has been learned previously-- and from multiple unrelated sources.