Monday, April 25, 2011

Grapevine-- The Truth Remains at a Murky Depth

This Easter marked the 77th anniversary of the Grapevine killings-- another of the many uncertain Bonnie and Clyde events, where truth seems poised as if formed of mercurial lines. It's of course clear, that officers Wheeler and Murphy were viciously gunned down that Easter in 1934-- upon investigating what unbenownst to them was a suspicious car containing The Barrow Gang. However now close to 8 decades later, exactly who actually shot the 2 motorcycle police officers that day remains a mystery-- along with how many and which weapons were used.

Many who take the lawman's view within this history and without an element of pity, look to Grapevine as a vindication of sorts for Frank Hamer-- in supporting his statements made in justifying the killing of Bonnie Parker. However the statements of said eyewitness William Schieffer have been debated for decades, and with good cause-- as contradictory eyewitness accounts exist. Schieffer was never able to identify Bonnie Parker as the woman he saw that day-- and in fact, even though it was apparently more than obvious that Clyde Barrow and his accomplices were involved, the police in sorting through the accounts told that Easter Sunday-- oddly decided to charge Billie Mace and Floyd Hamilton for the crime. Billie and Floyd would ultimately be exonerated via ballistics evidence found within the Warren death car. Also-- even though Emma Parker seemed desperate to wish a clean pass be given to her daughter in telling of a Henry Methvin confession to both murders-- the number and types of shell casings reportedly found at the scene, don't appear to support the participation of just one killer. It seems more logical that both Clyde Barrow and Henry Methvin pulled the triggers that day, although many seem eager to eliminate Clyde as one of the shooters.

Yes this is yet another murky Bonnie & Clyde event, which to those who cannot forget the senseless murders of H. D. Murphy and E. B. Wheeler-- point to both the brutality of The Barrow Gang and the reality of the times in which they lived. For those who wish to portray Bonnie and Clyde as victims, Grapevine like their other killings-- can be fashioned as if an origami folding into justifiable homicides of self preservation. However for those who view Bonnie & Clyde as nothing more than cold blooded and perhaps psychopathic killers, Easter Sunday 1934 was just another day-- except for which these particular murders along with The Barrow Gang's other killings-- should never be forgotten.

Thursday, April 14, 2011

Bonnie & Clyde Sexual Rumor Never a Dull Moment

During my recent hiatus, I would look to view key word entries used to access The B&CHB. Along with many thoughtful inquiries which I often respond to-- as usual, there were more than a fair share of questions regarding Bonnie & Clyde sexual rumor. Sometimes these questions seem asked, as if this blog somehow provides some bastion of support for that kind of thing. Well unless someone can show me viable proof of such rumors having a basis in reality-- no-- this is actually a place to dispel such meddlesome innuendo.

Nonetheless-- you've just gotta love many of the questions asked by people searching in the dark, for some semblance of Bonnie & Clyde sexual enlightenment. In keeping with my tradition of addressing B&C sexual innuendo in a forthright manner-- I present examples of questions and comments advanced by some in grasping at sordid straws-- and offer historical viewpoints within lighthearted responses.

Why couldn't B&C have sex??
I wouldn't bet on that having been the case-- and if Clyde were around, I wouldn't let him know you're wondering.

Was Clyde Barrow afraid of women??
I don't know-- perhaps Bonnie, Eleanor or Grace would've answered that one best. Clyde also seemingly had good relationships with his sisters and mother. Go figure.

Did Bonnie have sex with the gang??

Which one??-- the 5 member gang, expanded post Eastham gang-- or some version near the beginning or end. It's hard to explain the STDs in both B&C, but in 1930's America-- their malady was at record levels. The STDs prove sexual activity-- but apparently no one who knew Bonnie, described her in a nefarious way. Any Bonnie sordid reputation, seems to have been advanced post ambush.

Bonnie & Clyde gender
Is there a question here??

Why do people think Clyde was gay??
Ah-- that is the question. Thank you.

Tijuana Bible gay

That's a new one.

In B&C was Clyde gay?? Impotent??
I would suppose if the later were true, the 1st wouldn't matter. You forgot sterile. A tough combo to experience-- which I personally don't believe any of which may have applied to Clyde. For both medically and statistically-- from what I've learned concerning Clyde's teenage illneses, when compared to the odds of those experiences causing permanent harm-- I tend to discount the claims of Clyde's inabilities in these ways.

Bonnie & Clyde Hot Sex

OK-- but I thought they couldn't have sex.

Bonnie & Clyde hope for America
Not a B&C sexual question/comment-- but Wow!!

Risque innuendos regarding guns

Have you reached out to anyone, for help concerning this??

Clyde pencils
My goodness-- what does this mean??

B&C bisexual Guinn
With all respect-- I really don't think he might know.

Bonnie, Clyde, W.D. Jones sex

One big happy family??

B&C psychological profile

Again unrelated to B&C sexual rumor-- however "best of luck".

Bonnie Parker sex habits
I would think those who could have revealed any info of that sort for sure, both perished without doing so. Also given the spirit of the day, it was unlikely such personal info was ever disclosed. Thus anything published post death in the crime mags etc., would almost certainly be invented-- and framed toward sensationalism. Hey-- some are still doing that today. Gotta sell those books.

Who did Bonnie & Clyde eat??
A Freudian slip of the fingers??-- or perhaps
the grand champion of B&C sexual rumor quotes.
My favorite anyway.

I poke a bit of good-natured fun here, in an attempt to raise the bar above the fluff-- & encourage more individuals wondering about B&C, to concentrate on more serious B&C concerns. But a little light hearted commentary sometimes isn't a bad thing. My long standing challenge still stands-- for anyone anywhere, to please provide any reasonable proof to verify any Bonnie & Clyde sexual rumor. After all, facts are facts-- and rumors are called such for a reason.

I find it remarkable, that I can't get even "one" of the multitude of people who inquire about B&C sexual rumor-- to leave a comment explaining why they're fascinated by these somehow vital but unfounded rumors?? Perhaps someone will be brave enough to explain the lure of these feelings-- even though there's no credible evidence to support such claims.

Tuesday, April 12, 2011

The Baker Ambush Account-- The "Pause" is the Key

Right up front I'll say I've wrestled with my approach to this post. On the one hand-- I suppose many might feel the proper way to provide stark analysis and comment, re: the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde as published within Gordon Baker's Retribution-- would involve a point by point comparison to other known ambush accounts, as stated by participants who witnessed all hell breaking loose on earth-- that uncomfortably warm 1934 morning near Sailes, Louisiana. However as many are already entrenched within their favorite ambush stories, and generally seem unwilling to consider alternative possibilities-- I'm not sure what use those comparisons would be. The reality seems to be, that polarizing viewpoints based on conflicting stories of the ambush-- may too long be set in stone within many to be adjusted.

Plus the problem I see with that approach, involves the same roadblock as evidenced since 1979-- Ted Hinton's account of the ambush. For no matter who believes what concerning the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde-- in revealing his "come clean" version of events that day, Hinton's account directly or in effect frames all other ambush accounts as told by posse members who talked-- as cover up stories. As these other versions of the ambush differ from Hinton's account and each other in most curious ways-- the question we're forced into by default, is which story to believe??

Some might picture that most uncomfortable gap between the proverbial 'ol rock and a hard place to explain this dilemma-- while others may view this historical debacle, as tantamount to paddling against a stiff current-- and thus after much effort, arriving at no place in particular. Plus concerning the Baker ambush account, although this story could be true-- there's almost no evidence to substantiate it. Thus to me, for some to go through the creative exercise of forming elaborate arguments regarding which detail is or isn't feasible within the Baker story seems fruitless-- as the proof's not available and the accounts being compared to can't be substantiated by intense scrutiny either.


In preparing for this article, I felt it important to re-visit source accounts of the ambush as published at the time-- rather than count on well traveled Bonnie & Clyde reference book versions, so often editorialized over the years. I thought perhaps this approach could help ferret out overlooked clues from the unadulterated interviews of those who were there, where talking points could be derived to address Baker's version of the ambush.

Frank
Hamer gave an interview the morning after the ambush, which was published in the Dallas Post Dispatch. Another Hamer account, which included said secret Hamer info as related by a Hamer friend-- was published within Startling Detective Magazine. In a similar fashion, Henderson Jordan's ambush story was also published later on-- and can be found in the November '34 issue of True Detective magazine. Bob Alcorn gave an interview the day of the ambush-- published the following morning in the Dallas Morning News. And perhaps the most famous ambush account, can be found within Ambush-- Ted Hinton's B&C memoir published posthumously in 1979, which to many serves as his legacy.

Among conflicting tales, told by 6 lawmen trained in the art of observing and relating "detail" within their peace officers duties, but who strangely couldn't agree on many key elements of the ambush-- along with accounts told by other witnesses that day-- there's one crucial clue which to my mind holds the key to the Baker account. That pause-- as believed heard directly after Prentiss Oakley squeezed off the 1st 2 shots killing Clyde Barrow. As told by Gordon Baker, within Charles Baker's account of the ambush-- this discernible pause is prominently noted. And as seemingly related no where else to date, Baker fills in that gap in time with a Bonnie Parker plea for mercy and attempted protection in vain-- for her unborn child. As told within Retribution-- these brief but clearly audible cries went un-headed, and shortly thereafter-- Bonnie was shot to pieces.

Of interest to me-- is that Mr. Baker's not the 1st to buck the lawmen's version and reveal the possibility of a pause having occurred, before a brutal barrage of shots penetrated the Warren car-- passing through a likely already dead Clyde and killing Bonnie Parker. However there's plenty of disagreement, in sorting out this apparent independently confirmed and controversial claim. In examining the raw interviews-- the comparisons go as follows.

Within his ambush account,
Bienville Parish Sheriff Henderson Jordan notes witnessing a number of very specific and audible verbal exchanges between Ivy Methvin, Clyde and Bonnie. Then with Methvin diving for cover, Jordan states-- "The sharp report of rifle sounded. It's echo was drowned by the roar of six guns. Lead was poured into Barrow's car." Thus Jordan seems to reveal the slightest of pauses-- enough time for the echo of the 1st shots to ring out, before any following shots were fired.

Bob Alcorn never mentions Ivy Methvin, Prentiss Oakley, the Warren car coming to a standstill or any pause in saying--"Clyde began to slow down. All of us jumped up from behind that little mound. We had rifles and shotguns pointed at him. By this time he was in fifty feet of us. He saw us and reached over grabbing for what we later learned was his gun. We let him have it. His head flew back. Bonnie toppled forward. The car careened to the left and ran into a sandbank. We didn't know whether we killed them or not".

Frank Hamer in employing hindsight within his interview the next morning, recalls the moment of the ambush with curious detail-- in saying "Clyde was driving less than 30 miles per hour. I raised up and commanded them to halt. At the same instant, Clyde reached for his 12 gauge sawed off shotgun leaning on the seat between him and Bonnie, and Bonnie reached for a 16 gauge sawed of shotgun. I gave them a chance to halt but they didn't, so we gave 'em the same medicine they've given so many others. *Note-- This is the interview, which may have forever framed Hamer's opinion of having killed Bonnie Parker in the eyes of many by his stating-- "I hated to shoot a woman-- but as I looked down my rifle barrel I remembered that Bonnie Parked had taken part in the murder of nine peace officers. I remembered how she kicked the body of a highway patrolman at Grapevine, Tex., Easter Sunday, and fired a bullet into his body as he lay on the ground. Bonnie just got in the way of bullets intended for Clyde Barrow. A woman like that had something like that coming to her."

However, within a later vintage article on Frank Hamer entitled Outlaw Tamer of the New West-- more is recounted of the ambush in a more dramatized story, including info said supplied by an unnamed friend of Hamer's. Although this article contains seeming exaggeration, out and out falsehoods and often contradicts Hamer's earlier version as told at the time of the waylay-- some details (such as B&C reaching for weapons)-- actually support other ambush stories. However note that Prentiss Oakley's 1st shots are conspicuously missing. Thus no pause. Among other things not mentioned-- there's no mention of Ivy Methvin.

This article recounts the ambush as this-- Hamer restrained his impatient aides and at 9:30 they sighted a V-8 coming up the rise. A truck slowed the Ford up and at the crest of the hill the car came almost to a complete stop. Six rifles leveled at the man and the girl in the car. "It's Barrow," cried Hinton and Alcorn
confirmed. Six voices cried "Hands up!" Barrow dropped a hand into his lap for the weapon that lay there. Bonnie reached for a shotgun at her side. The six rifles Browning automatics all, roared. Lead smashed through the windshield, through the windows, through the body of the car. Barrow's head slumped onto his chest and his body rolled oddly and lifelessly over into the seat. His foot slipped from the clutch and the car started up jerked forward in high for a few feet and into a ditch. The Hail of leaden death never let up until the automobile had settled over onto one side. Hamer found Barrow drooped lifelessly over the car door, one ear and the back of his head torn off, his chest driven in by 50 bullet wounds. Terribly mutilated also was Bonnie, one hand clutching a pack of cigarets, the other an automatic shotgun. Hamer turned away, slightly ill.

Hinton's version of the critical moment was expressed as this-- "He has pulled even with the engine part of the parked truck, twenty feet in front of me, and he is in my gunsight, though his car is still moving. Suddenly, Alcorn's deep bellow "HALT!" arouses him. Alongside him Bonnie screams, and I fire and everyone fires, and in the awful hell and noise Clyde is reaching for a weapon, and the wheels are digging into the gravel as he makes a start to get away. MY B.A.R. spits out twenty shots in an instant, and the drumbeat of shells knifes through the steel body of the car, and glass is shattering. For a fleeting instant, the car seems to melt and hang in a kind of eerie and animated suspension, trying to move forward, spitting gravel-- etc".

Nicely written, but here's a question-- again what happened to Prentiss Oakley's 1st 2 shots?? Those shots are not apparent, nor is any pause seemingly discernible at all in Hinton's account. Although not in interview form with him directly, fortunately-- Prentiss Oakley apparently related thoughts of his ambush experience to friends-- who revealed some of Oakley's comments over the years. These revelations have been available in video form. Importantly, Oakley admitted firing first-- but said he wasn't sure why he fired. It's thought the intense pressure of the moment, may have caused Oakley (with a bead on Clyde)-- to squeeze his trigger initially. But again, true to other ambush posse accounts-- I don't recall these stories of Oakley's exploits, including mention of a pause after his firing.

However in throwing a gleaming monkey wrench into the lawmen's accounts-- this pause "is" noted within the accounts of independent observers, some of whom were present to witness the ambush with both their eyes & ears-- and some who instead witnessed it just aurally. As told within Bonnie & Clyde A 21st Century Update, Jim Knight notes that Prentiss Oakley emptied 5 shots into the Warren car, with only the 1st shot having hit Clyde in the temple killing him instantly. Jim states that as witnessed that day, only Oakley's 1st 2 shots stood out on their own-- with the final 3 being drowned out within the carnage which ensued. Buddy Goldston is footnoted as the source of that info, from his Remembering Bonnie and Clyde documentary interview.

John Neal Phillips also makes reference to this pause in firing, within his iconic Bonnie & Clyde rendering Running with Bonnie and Clyde. In this offering, Prentiss Oakley took 2 shots prematurely-- with Hinton seeing Clyde's head snap back. Then all six officers opened fire. It's seems unclear from John's account-- how long this pause was noted to be. The man named as the source of this critical info, concerning Oakley having fired with the pause that followed-- is Gibsland resident Olin Jackson. Mr. Jackson was working in the fields some 2 miles away, at the time of the ambush. Olin who to me was a good but testy interview, and who recently passed away having reached his late 90s-- told this now famous story of having heard the initial shots-- followed by a pause and then a wrath of gunfire. Mr. Jackson's claim has been chronicled in both video form, and within some of the more reputable Bonnie & Clyde historical reference books.

Although none of these accounts note a duration for this pause (which would be key to the Baker account)-- as I understand it from my many talks with "Boots" Hinton, who heard this story from Olin-- Mr. Jackson noted a slight pause before additional gunfire erupted. How slight is slight-- may be the "most" important element in wading through the Baker ambush account. As mentioned, not even Ted Hinton who professed to have exposed the truth within his account of the ambush-- mentions this discernible pause and thus offers no details from that experience. But it seems to me, those sympathetic to the lawmen have been forced to comment on this gap in time-- and admit to a contradiction in events as reported, based on independent witness accounts.

This opens up the possibility to all sorts of contradictions to the reality of that day-- as the lawmen themselves couldn't seem to get their stories quite straight. Concerning that pause in firing-- as others independent of the law and independent of the Baker account witnessed this pause-- I am inclined to believe such a pause indeed occurred. But it's what happened within that pause, that's important to Baker's story.


The crux of the Baker ambush account is that Frank Hamer hired Charles Baker, said to have been a freelance Canadian born photographer living in Texas at the time-- to record on film the capture of Bonnie & Clyde. Within this story, Hamer's motivation seems to involve preserving for some future use (perhaps his own)-- professionally shot footage of the ambush. Thus Charles Baker is reported as the "7th man" at Sailes that day, who chronicled the ambush. The film from 3 strategically placed movie cameras, was said to have been confiscated by Hamer-- who made sure no footage remained out of his possession.

As further explained within Retribution, during that pause & after Prentiss Oakley had noticeably killed Clyde-- Bonnie was said to have pleaded for mercy-- with enough time seemingly having elapsed for Baker to believe the posse might take Bonnie Parker alive. But then to Baker's horror, Bonnie is executed in a hail of bullets. After the ambush, and with posse members self absorbed in sifting through the bounty of their efforts-- Charles Baker is able to abscond with Bonnie's diary, which was well hidden under Bonnie's seat. This diary apparently revealed a final Bonnie Parker poem (Retribution)-- and diary entries from January 1st, 1934 until the morning of the ambush. It's said Bonnie's final diary entry, eerily foretold of her own death on that very day.

Of course the beauty of Retribution from a documentation viewpoint-- is that there isn't any. It seems the most crucial element of Baker's proof (Charles Baker's notes)-- were destroyed in a vindictive act by a Baker relative. I don't know about you, but I guarantee you one thing-- if those were my notes, they would have been locked up tight in a safe deposit box so that no cruel fate could befall them. I suppose Gordon Baker's explanation of Bonnie & Clyde not being of particular importance to him in 1985, couldn't have been better illustrated-- than by his apparent disregard for the value of those irreplaceable notes, which today could be historically monumental.

I've read much of the overzealous banter re: Retribution, as professed by those within this history who like to spread their skepticism like a blanket-- and pick apart any and all minutia within the saga of Bonnie & Clyde to the point of obsession. I myself don't feel it makes any difference, which wind up cameras may have been used by Charles Baker-- or where he was when the proceedings in Arcadia were unfolding. Hell-- the cloak of secrecy concerning the ambush of B&C casts such a dark shadow, I would challenge anyone to recount the actual events as they occurred that day-- based on any one or combination of ambush accounts. It's my belief, the full truth concerning the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde may never be known.

To me this is simple-- we could debate Retribution for years, but I don't feel we need to. Could Charles Baker have been at the ambush at the invitation of Frank Hamer?? Sure. Could he have recorded the ambush on film that Hamer confiscated?? Sounds like Hamer to me. However-- did this event actually happen as portrayed within Retribution??? I would ask politely, how these accounts could be believed objectively-- with nary a shred of proof??? I would feel more comfortable concerning Charles Baker, if some evidence of his existence could be shown. We know much about the 6 who fired at Bonnie & Clyde-- but nothing about Baker, with the exception of a word of mouth account and secondary notes. Could Baker and his participation within this history, just be one of those deep dark Bonnie & Clyde secrets-- never meant to see the light of day?? That could be a fair assessment-- as I believe many of those secrets exist. However I must say, the already murky ambush of B&C is hardly the place-- to throw in this added historical mystery without some element of proof. Concerning Baker and his story-- having a disclaimer act as a barricade at every turn, is not good for historical disclosure.

Regarding the pause which I feel so important-- based on independent witness accounts, no matter what the lawmen said that day or later in life-- I for one believe there was some discernible pause after Prentiss Oakley's 1st shots rang out. And the lawmen themselves may have evidenced this, with the claim that Bonnie was heard to scream after the law's presence was known. That's an interesting clue, as it too notes a space in time for reflection-- but at what point this scream occurred (pre or post Oakley's shots)-- would be vital to know. I'm still searching for a Bonnie scream from source material at the time, but am not sure this Bonnie reaction was noted until later. Hinton notes it after Alcorn's warning and prior to any shooting having started. It's funny-- they "let them have it"-- but some still had time to hear Bonnie's scream. Another seeming inconsistency.

However none of those who witnessed a pause in the firing, seemed to note a pause long enough for Bonnie to have made her plea as noted by Baker. In this case, the timing of gunshots wouldn't lie-- and that timing element-- a pause long enough for Bonnie to plead for 2 human lives and attempt to surrender-- doesn't seem apparent within what could have been terrific corroborating evidence. To me, the length of the pause is the "key" in being able to support or reject the Baker ambush account. In my view-- the amount of detail as reported within that pause by Baker-- could not likely occur within the space of time noted by independent observers. While others may choose to hash out the minutia of this to their heart's content-- I'll stick with this key moment as being most important.


Many know, after looking into a possible Bonnie Parker pregnancy now for close to 3 years-- I make no bones about the fact that at this point, I believe Bonnie may have been pregnant (or thought she was) when killed. I feel there may eventually be enough evidence to support this Bonnie circumstance. Nonetheless-- without even cursory proof for it's claims, I can add little additional credence to a Bonnie pregnancy based on the Baker ambush account. Having said that-- I respect very much Gordon Baker's valiant and stated desire, to have done right in honoring Charles Baker's dying request concerning this story.

You won't get me to say that I doubt Gordon Baker, or attack him as some defenders of the B&C Status Quo have done. I have no tolerance for unwarranted or vicious personal attacks-- whether within an historical context or elsewhere. Historical commentary based on substance is one thing-- immaturity and the use of personal slurs is quite another.

And for those who like to cast stones at me-- yes-- when compared to Gordon Baker, I view my criticism of Jeff Guinn's B&C book in a much different manner. To me, there's no apparent willingness to overtly tout the sensational within Baker's book-- or mold non-facts into facts, while noting via footnotes or e-mail that due diligence was employed-- or use materials with dubious merit from supposed B&C authorities, to make inference where inference cannot logically be made-- or publish claims based on the wrong provenance, when the correct provenance was easily obtainable-- or to utilize a "catch all" disclaimer, which in effect releases him from any and all responsibility historically-- in stating that "all written history is ultimately best guess." That's more the work of a hired gun, with literary experience in writing of vampires and Santa Claus. The simple truth is-- evidence is required to validate historical claims. Otherwise stories such as this, fall into the realm of Bonnie & Clyde lore. And Lord knows-- there's never a shortage of B&C lore.

It's most unfortunate more evidence isn't available to support Charles Baker's claim-- or of the existence of Charles Baker himself. Perhaps this could be sorted out in the future. Proof of the existence of Baker would help immensely, toward considering Retribution and it's ambush account as a viable Bonnie & Clyde work.


I don't believe anyone living, can substantiate exactly what occurred at the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde. I'm must say I'm to the point, where I don't feel confident in any of the stated ambush accounts. There seem too many conflicting and important differences noted, to know for sure what occurred that day-- except that Bonnie & Clyde were indeed killed by the 6 lawmen known to have participated (rightly or wrongly) in that carnage. But I suppose without this profound element of mystery within B&C History, filled with it's many fascinating uncertainties-- there would be little to do but say "Yep-- that's the way it was". And what fun would that be?? Also what can be made of the reported Bonnie Parker poem Retribution-- which accompanies this new B&C book, and could sound the part of a Bonnie poem-- but is it??

As always-- I welcome your comments.


Tuesday, February 15, 2011

A Bonnie & Clyde History Blog Q & A-- With Gordon Baker

Gordon Baker's new Bonnie and Clyde offering Retribution, has inspired much comment-- some of it polite, thoughtful and genuinely inquisitive, and some to my way of thinking-- rude, self serving and not befitting of historical discussion. Unfortunately within the analysis of Bonnie & Clyde History, there are some who would prefer to play vicious games, rather than add meaningful comment to this history. With that said, there are many more fair minded and polite individuals-- who keep a wary but open mind concerning Bonnie & Clyde History, and who with the proper element of respect-- are willing to consider alternative scenarios within an historical void, which rarely lets in much light.

Perhaps those so critical of Mr. Baker, should take a lesson from the famous quote attributed to Voltaire but likely written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pseudonym S. G.
Tallentyre which states-- “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Within that spirit of fairness, it seems appropriate to comment-- that Retribution consists of a reasonable but brief rehash of Bonnie & Clyde History, derived from a variety of well known sources. And just as a number of Bonnie & Clyde authors have formed their historical opinions based on writings which have come before them, it appears Mr. Baker along with the proper credits-- has accomplished his version of the same. As such although the read is good, Retribution offers little new on the traditional Bonnie & Clyde home front. "However"-- this new e-book's importance and claim to fame, will undoubtedly be it's "7th man" ambush account-- a wildly different and most controversial story espousing the participation of Charles Baker, whom it's said was hired by Frank Hamer to professionally film the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde.

It's purported that to Baker's horror, he witnessed Bonnie Parker plead for her life as well as the life of her unborn child-- only to have those pleas dashed and then be brutally murdered, after the sharpshooting of Prentiss Oakley had already cut down Clyde Barrow within the space of 2 shots. At first what seemed a chance Bonnie would be taken alive, quickly turned to mayhem-- as the ambush posse opened up with remarkable firepower, on just one living individual whom it seemed apparent to Charles Baker could have been saved. Although it's never seemed clear what the posse members realized at the time, or whether their regenerated thoughts only resonated within accounts told afterward??-- when you think of it, based on the totality of ambush recollections-- the sense of Clyde having been hit and likely already dead when Bonnie took the wrath of so many shots-- seems with or without Charles Baker, to have been the reality of the ambush.

However based on this latest ambush account, the key question is-- did an independent observer audibly hear Bonnie Parker plead for her life and the life of an unborn innocent, only to be decimated in cold blood by officers who couldn't control their desire to enact retribution that day-- their own form of roadside justice, regardless of circumstance?? With all the cloaked secrecy surrounding Bonnie & Clyde ambush stories as told over the years, it seems fair to ask whether Baker's account is credible enough to be "the great dark secret"-- and reason for all the conflicting ambush accounts as told, not told or analyzed for all these many decades?? It's not my purpose within this post, to address my opinions or evidentiary comparisons regarding the Baker ambush account. Rather this article, is dedicated to questions and answers addressed to Gordon Baker concerning his book. My next post concerning Retribution, will get to the meat of the matter from an historical viewpoint.

Some have seemingly taken their public interrogation of Mr. Baker to an unhealthy and heartless extreme, under the guise of protecting Bonnie & Clyde historical correctness. Well as someone who staunchly defends Bonnie & Clyde historical accuracy, my view is if someone, "anyone"-- can verify which ambush account is worthy to protect and why??-- well then we have a news flash!! The ambush of Bonnie & Clyde's been solved. But as no one can seem to prove any of the ambush accounts as stated, and it doesn't appear this one can be proven either-- "and" I assure you, even more controversial ambush contentions are on the horizon-- my view is, to maintain an open mind and keep digging for the truth. There are certain aspects of the ambush and it's aftermath, which are pretty much assured. However to this day-- many key elements concerning the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde-- seem about as solid as a dissipating fog.

While some were busy exhibiting non-exemplary behavior toward this latest Bonnie & Clyde author-- I felt it important to reach out to Gordon Baker, in a way fitting of someone who'd presented a new Bonnie & Clyde ambush account. What follows are a series of questions, answers and comments made to and by Gordon Baker. Among many e-mails to hit my inbox in commenting on Retribution, a number of really good questions were advanced-- which I addressed with Gordon Baker both within e-mails and a phone conversation I had with him. Along with queries of my own-- I present here a compilation of questions which many have felt should be asked, along with responses from Gordon Baker. Many thanks, to those who formed questions used in this effort.


Q-- Even though you had an agreement to wait the 25 years until 2010 to tell this story, based on a realization of your own mortality-- why did you risk this information perhaps being lost forever?? Did you ever think to release this information sooner??

GB-- I now understand your concern, as a historian about my waiting so long to make the information public. In that 25 year period, I could have lost my life, and the information I had would have been lost. However, the deal was I had to wait out those 25 years before going public. This was Charles Baker’s wish. No, I never considered releasing the info sooner. I filed the info away and never really thought about it much until the beginning of 2010. Prior to my starting to write the book about B&C at the beginning of 2010, the B&C story was not a big deal to me. It's only since I started to write the book that I have taken more of an interest in the story.


Q--Did Charles Baker make notes of the ambush, and how long after the ambush were these notes made?? Also did you make notes based on Charles story as you heard it?? And did your father perhaps make any notes, based on his knowledge of Charles story??


GB-- Charles did make notes about the ambush, but I have no idea how long after the incident that he did this. I did not make any notes as Charles told me, he would be mailing me a copy of all the information, which he did. My father did not make any notes. Everything I put in the book concerning Charles's participation was taken from his notes.


Q-- Where are Charles' notes now??


GB-- I had all the notes Charles Baker sent me including the envelope till the winter of 2004. It was at that time that my sister destroyed most of my belongings. This is a story about a fight over our parent's estate. It started in 2000 and it is still going on today, eleven years later. In 1999 I purchased a new computer, and that was when I entered the notes Charles had sent me.

Q-- How did your father learn of Charles' ambush account??


GB-- In 1935, Charles father told my dad his son had been with the B&C posse, acting as a photographer. That was all the information he gave my dad and he asked my father to not repeat that information. My dad never told me about that and I only learned he knew about it, the day Charles visited my dad's home in 1985.


Q-- How old was Charles Baker in 1934?? How old was he at his death??

GB-- I believe he was 81 when he died so that would put him at 30 years old in 1934.

(A.W.W. note)-- 1934 plus 51 = 1985. As such, Charles would have died the same year he met with Gordon Baker. Some tight timing-- however Gordon related to me that Charles knew he was dying, and didn't want to pass on without his ambush experience being known.

Q-- Where in Texas did Charles Baker live??

GB-- All I know is that he was living in Texas at the time. I don’t know what part. My father did tell me, because of the type of work he was in, he had to keep on the move to find new jobs and of course the depression of that era didn’t help his cause any. This next comment was speculation on my father’s part. He believed Charles accepted the ambush assignment hoping that it would open up new opportunities, which would further his career.


Q-- Was Charles employed as a newspaper or media photographer-- or was he a freelance photographer, and where was he employed??


GB-- Charles was self employed by himself as a freelance photographer. From my understanding, times were difficult then and being a freelance photographer was not an easy job. Apparently he was quite mobile in his search for work.


Q-- Was Charles Baker an American??


GB-- No, Charles was a Canadian-- who lived in Texas at the time.


Q-- Do you have a photo of Charles, or know of anyone who would??

GB-- I do not have a photo and wouldn’t know where to start to try and get one.
I only met Charles that one time. These were distant relatives and the two arms of the families only visited each other a few times in the 30s.

Q-- Do you feel it would it be possible to locate info on Charles Baker??

GB-- Trying to trace back Charles Baker is a mission impossible job. Too much time has passed. The Baker families did not keep in touch with distant relatives. All my dad's brothers and sisters are dead, and it's the same on my mother's side. The same would be true for all arms of the family tree.


Q-- How did Charles Baker come to meet Frank Hamer??


GB-- I have no knowledge of how he met Hamer or what assignments they worked on.


Q-- What type of cameras were used by Charles Baker in recording the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde, and how could more than one camera have been running at the same time??


GB-- I'm almost certain Charles used a Cine Kodak 8 Model 20 movie camera. This camera was used during the 1930s and was employed by many newspaper photographers. Cameras such as this used wind up spring mechanisms, which allowed 2 minutes of filming time for each side of the film. 2 minutes of film would 1st be shot on one side-- then the film cartridge reversed to allow for an additional 2 minutes of exposure. I believe an external spring action device could be purchased, which could extend the motor time.


(A.W.W. note)-- For reference, here's a link showing how an old style Kodak movie camera worked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3E0fYNtu8w


Q-- The January 1st entry in Bonnie's diary seems to allow for the possibility that Frank Hamer was involved in the hunt for B&C prior to the Eastham Prison break. How would this be possible??-- or does this diary entry purport an unknown reality for the emergence of Frank Hamer within this history??


GB-- In reference to your paragraph starting with, “Also the Jan 1st, 1934 reference. I have read the two entries in the diary and yes, you are right, they do appear to be out of sync. When I was entering the notes into my computer I was taking small chunks, typing them in and triple checking them to make sure I had everything correct. In that regard, I am confident that I did not make a mistake. That raises the question, did Charles make a mistake, did Bonnie make a mistake or did Bonnie know something that has not been discovered yet?


Q-- What other info concerning Bonnie Parker's diary was present within the notes you mentioned existed??

GB-- Charles said Bonnie was quite the writer, and as such many of her entries were long-- in talking of the weather, road conditions, reminiscing about things they had done in the past, and places Bonnie would like to go etc. As such, Charles related only what he thought was relevant information.

Q-- L. J. "Boots" Hinton has sometimes related stories from his father which are unpublished. Have you ever spoken to "Boots" Hinton??

GB-- I have never spoken to "Boots" Hinton.


(A.W.W. note)-- As there's an ambush detail, I've heard recounted by "Boots" which I believe has had little exposure over the years-- I felt it important to ask this question. "Boots" has also told me, that he and Gordon have never spoken.


Gordon Baker comments--


The B&C posse had a seventh man with them who was a freelance photographer hired by Frank Hamer. I personally, do not find that impossible or strange to believe. I believe the ambush of B&C was going to be the highlight of Hamer’s career and he was well aware of that. He was also aware that trophy material, like the killing of B&C would be worth a substantial amount of money. However, he had to settle for whatever B&C had with them at the time of the ambush. I believe Hamer made the decision to have the ambush recorded on film because he knew that would be worth money to news services, newspapers, magazines and maybe even the Hollywood film industry.


The reality was with a seventh man at the ambush, there was now a person who could give a more independent account of what happened. However, Hamer was a methodical type of person and to protect himself in case of a major blunder, he swore the photographer to silence with deadly consequences if he ever talked. His actions make sense and his thinking is logical. If the ambush didn't go as planned the last thing he needed was a big mouth photographer causing him major embarrassment.


Charles Baker's account of the ambush was quite close to the other accounts given by the lawmen. There are however, a few differences.


1) The car stopped on the hill for as long as five minutes, before approaching the truck stopped on the highway ahead of them.


2) Between the killing of Clyde and the killing of Bonnie there was an interval of time, where no shots were fired. I don't know how long that period was, but it was long enough that Charles believed they were going to take Bonnie alive.


3) A third difference is the fact that Bonnie was given enough time to yell at the lawmen after Clyde was killed. After reading Charles' notes, there was no question about it. She was trying to surrender to the law and begging for her life. Her efforts failed, but I believe it bought her more precious seconds. During those seconds, the lawmen had to be wondering was this right, to kill a pregnant woman who was a cripple and pleading for her life? In the end, I believe the lawmen looked to their boss for a signal on what to do? Hamer's signal came in the form of the opening shots, which led to over thirty shells entering Bonnie's fragile body.


4) A fourth difference is the fact, Bonnie in her attempt to surrender told the lawmen that she was pregnant. Another unknown that will never have an answer is would Hamer have given B&C fair warning before firing. My personal thoughts are yes he would have. Clyde vowed he would never be taken alive. If Hamer gave them fair warning, Clyde had two choices, reach for his gun or put the gas pedal to the floor. Either way, he was a dead man in my books.


Hamer went to the trouble of hiring a photographer to film the event. I believe he did this, because he figured he could make some money with the film. If that was true then he needed to follow proper police procedures. However, the ambush took a twist of fate, not in Hamers' favor and he had to bury the film.


Third piece of new info. The photographer finding Bonnie's diary. Again this disclosure of information is hard to believe. However, Bonnie was known to have kept a diary. My own thoughts on this are: The lawmen in their haste or excitement did not find the diary and Charles did. It was just pure luck on his part. However, for him to smuggle it out under the nose of Hamer was one gutsy move.


Gordon Baker thoughts at this time


I have read all your emails 3 times, to make sure I understood them. I have read some comments on line. I knew there would be a lot of skepticism. I knew people would want proof almost beyond a shadow of a doubt. I can understand that. So far I've received two nasty emails. Some people are taking this very personal. It's only now, I realize, I should have taken notes and regret that mistake. At that point in time (1985) my interest in B&C was not that great. I was self employed at that time and owned two video movie rental stores. The renting of video movies was very popular in those days and the stores occupied most of my time.


Gordon Baker conclusion to this point


I'm really wondering if I did the right thing, by going public with the info. However, I believe most people have filled in the blanks anyway. I read one comment on line, where the person stated this news is not new. I wish Charles would have gone public with it, long before he died. That way, everyone would have heard the story from the horse's mouth.


Some people think this is all about me selling books. If people want me to give the book away, I'm willing to list it for free. This was about my keeping a promise. I believe the average person in the U.S. and Canada couldn't care less about Bonnie and Clyde. Actually, I did forget to include a couple of items in the book, which are Frank Hamer did give Charles Baker a pat down looking for any film that Charles may have put in his pockets. That was at the same time he asked Charles to open all the cameras. The other item was Charles did say Frank Hamer was a big man and it was very easy to feel intimidated around him. I can tell you that when Charles started talking about the ambush, he became very emotional. It was clear to me that 50 years had not faded the memories. I do remember him telling me, I don't know how those lawmen can live with themselves, after firing their guns on a defenseless cripple woman, who was clearly trying to surrender. It was this part of the ambush that affected him the most I believe, as he mentioned it more than once.


-- Gordon.


A.W.W. Comment--


I will return soon, with a critical look at the Baker ambush account. For those who feel Bonnie & Clyde History shouldn't be explored to it's fullest, because some in their ultimate wisdom wish to pass definitive judgment on this history-- which is so hard to nail down in so many regards-- some beautifully written words of edification.


The people along the sand
All turn and look one way.
They turn their back on the land.
They look at the sea all day.

As long as it takes to pass
A ship keeps raising its hull;
The wetter ground like glass
Reflects a standing gull.

The land may vary more;
But wherever the truth may be—
The water comes ashore,
And the people look at the sea.

They cannot look out far.
They cannot look in deep.
But when was that ever a bar
To any watch they keep?

Neither Out Far Nor In Deep
Robert Frost 1936

Friday, February 4, 2011

Just the Thing to Kick Off the New Year Right-- The January 2011 Bonnie & Clyde Polls

I tried to keep things within the realm of easy research, for the 1st batch of 2011 Bonnie and Clyde Polls. So continuing within that vein of simplicity-- here we go. Homer Glaze and Mrs. L. G. Butler, were both said to have witnessed the killing of Howard Hall at his Little's grocery store in Sherman, Texas on October 11th, 1932. When Mr. Hall protested what was apparently Clyde Barrow's abusive and aggressive treatment of him-- Mr. Hall was shot 3 times in the chest. For those who say Clyde wasn't a cold blooded killer and just killed when he had to, the Howard Hall killing is perhaps revealing and fuel for the fire of debate-- as Mr. Hall was reportedly shot a 4th time while dying on the ground. Anger, cursing and abusiveness were noted, culminating in Clyde being indicted for the Hall killing with malice in December of '32.

Contrary to what might seem obvious for the owner of a combination jewelry store, filling station and garage-- John Bucher's training was said to have been as an optician. One can envision the "fine eye" of an optician-- as being useful to a jeweler. 3 filling stations, were reportedly robbed by The Barrow Gang in rapid succession on July 18th, 1933 at Fort Dodge, Iowa. However, it seems in addition to robbing the 3 stations and kidnapping 2 of the station attendants along the way-- some overlooked the 4th robbery committed by Clyde and the gang in Fort Dodge. That of Justin Chevalier, brother of the Texaco owner Leon Chevalier. Justin was relieved of the keys to his car, apparently to prevent the car from being used to trail the outlaws. In one of those amazing Barrow Gang stories, Justin reportedly asked Clyde to throw his keys out the window down the road-- so he wouldn't need to replace them. This "good deed" of a request, was reportedly honored by Clyde.


High powered rifles were said to have been the weapons used by Burley Wetsel and Carl Capp, to fire upon the Barrow Gang as it exited the scene-- after robbing the Farmers & Miners Bank in Oronogo, Missouri on November 30th, 1932. The machine gun fire which was returned in retaliation for the gas men's volley, was said to have just missed Wetsel. Although there seems nothing truly definitive to go on-- a comparison of photos with Emma Parker standing next to Bonnie (who was reportedly just shy of 5 feet in height)-- and Cumie Barrow standing next to a 5 foot 1 inch Blanche, seem to show Emma to be the taller of the Bonnie & Clyde mothers. Although both a teller and a customer at the Henry & Sons bank in Lancaster, Texas, couldn't positively identify Clyde Barrow and Ray Hamilton as the robbers of their bank that late February day in '34-- Clyde's newspaper feud with Ray Hamilton seemed to reveal all that needed to be known to implicate them. Even though 4 vehicles were said used in an elaborate plan to evade the law-- it was Henry Methvin believed to have been at the wheel, when Clyde and Ray exited the bank.

And in a question I though some might get but didn't-- Dr. James Wade's coroners office was in Arcadia-- but his personal practice was located in Gibsland. The burned out remains of his physician's office, is located just across the street from what was Ma Canfield's Cafe-- now occupied by The Bonnie & Clyde Ambush Museum. I've found an article in the past noting that Dr. Wade's clinic had burned-- but I've never been able to determine when this destruction occurred. Within photos I've taken while in Gibsland, archived here in the B&CHB photo gallery-- in the right shots, you can see the scorched empty space which evidence notes (with the remains of 3 different tile floor patterns visible)-- that the vacant area once housed 3 storefronts. As I understand it, Dr. Wade's practice was located in the far left space.

And finally concerning Joe Gunn and his experience with The Barrow Gang at Reeds Spring, Missouri in February of '34-- it seems the most widely held belief based on interviews with Mr. Gunn, had him walking "to" the store when picked up by the gang near Fred Tolbert's farm. Therefore, he would likely not have had his groceries with him, when apprehended by a powerfully armed and formidable Barrow Gang lineup that day.


Many thanks as always, for your participation in the B&C Polls. Look for the February polls to be posted soon.

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Again and Again "and Again"-- A Rude and Non-Productive Bonnie & Clyde History

One of the least enjoyable things I do concerning Bonnie & Clyde History, is having to comment from time to time-- about those who would attempt to influence which Bonnie & Clyde accounts are acceptable to advance and believe-- and which ones aren't. This history is sometimes so polarized, that kind of thing can actually occur. However within my focus on advancing Bonnie & Clyde truth, narrow minded attempts at historical censorship don't fly with me-- and have caused flaps over the years among some of us with our ears to the ground within this history. As I believe Bonnie & Clyde History should be wide open for new or lesser known accounts to be told and examined-- I never understand the need for the judgmental recompense which can sometimes occur.

Regarding the effort by some, in attempting to discredit the new Bonnie & Clyde book Retribution and it's author Gordon Baker-- prior to more knowledge even being known concerning it's alleged revelations-- unfortunately, I find that a typical reaction by some "gate keepers" of Bonnie & Clyde History-- who in my view couldn't be more wrong. The lack of decorum within this history can be remarkable-- and as I see it, vengeance and threats shouldn't be part of any Bonnie & Clyde historical issue. Passion yes-- but passion to a fault-- no. Plus among some, there could be viewed a discernible conflict of interest-- in appearing to protect other ambush theories and "revelations"-- which to many, may end up being even more unbelievable and non-provable than the Baker account. In my view, all Bonnie & Clyde stories should stand on their own merits (or lack there of)-- and be sorted out based on honest and straight forward investigative analysis-- not childish, cursory and non-productive nonsense.


To all who've sent derogatory e-mails or worse here & there-- or have commented so viciously about this new Bonnie & Clyde effort with it's controversial ambush account, I would ask-- how can you look to shut down possible revelations within Bonnie & Clyde History no matter how "outrageous"-- just because you feel they're not true?? Then like some great protectors-- feel you're doing a service for this history, by attempting to eliminate historical assertions before they're even investigated. Hell if some had their way, I suppose we'd have no Bonnie & Clyde articles or reference materials at all-- based on a rain of skepticism and examinations on the vaunted Internet. As such-- many Bonnie & Clyde books and postulations, could be judged too controversial for publication.

BTW-- for those who send e-mails my way with unsavory comments, apparently aimed at my providing a forum for Bonnie & Clyde accounts you don't feel are cool-- please know I am proud to feature B&C accounts of many types, and don't plan on changing my independent looks into Bonnie & Clyde History anytime soon. Now would I publish an account which said Bonnie & Clyde jumped over the moon?? No-- but other accounts which seem to merit consideration, will find a forum for exploration here.

I would ask why an ambush account like Frank Hamer's, who has Bonnie & Clyde going no faster than 30 MPH when ambushed, be subjected to more or less scrutiny than this account-- or for that matter a total of 4 accounts, which have a warning shouted to Clyde by 3 different officers?? Those conflicting ambush accounts, made by lawmen who were experienced in providing detail concerning circumstances they found themselves in-- but yet couldn't seem to get their stories straight, have been meticulously examined for more than 75 years. So why then is it wrong to examine this new account?? Those who react negatively to new Bonnie & Clyde stories being advanced-- don't seem to like it when the possibility of a Bonnie pregnancy is brought up-- just as now in shooting down this ambush account which involves a Bonnie pregnancy as well. Hmmm.


Apparently for some who fancy themselves as saviors of Bonnie & Clyde History-- anger, hate and censorship are honorable. The Internet and some e-mails are abuzz with less than polite comment on Retribution, as well as threatening language which I find deplorable. I'll be most interested to see, what happens when certain new theories and revelations surface (of which I'm aware)-- and some within this history rush to discredit those questionable assertions. Others can banter behind the scenes, to find hollow justification in support of this kind of thing-- but I cannot. I'm going to learn what I can about these new ambush contentions, and report on them in an objective and historical way.

A parallel concerning Jeff Guinn has been advanced in comparing my handling of Go Down Together to Retribution. "Many" have had issues with Guinn's "True" Untold Story of Bonnie & Clyde. The difference in Guinn's case, was I knew based on correspondence and documentation-- that there were likely issues with his diligence, concerning the Bonnie prostitute angle-- his admitted use of a report based on apparent supposition concerning his ambush account-- and conflict between one of his interviews, and a previously held interview with the same individual. In addition, Jeff's "remarkable" statement to me that "all written history is ultimately best guess"-- well that didn't help his credibility with me either. So in the case of Go Down Together, there appeared to be multiple issues with that Bonnie & Clyde effort-- which when compared to this new ambush account, at least up until now don't apply. It could be, that there won't be enough objective evidence to support this bold new assertion-- but at least the reporting of it, may not have the same issues as found with Go Down Together.


My feeling is there should be civility within Bonnie and Clyde History, that this history should be fully explored-- and in regard to searches for Bonnie & Clyde truth, that the chips should fall where they may-- and not be stacked the way some feel they should look. As always, I hope for a better Bonnie and Clyde History-- and return now to more enjoyable historical tasks.

Monday, January 24, 2011

Retribution-- Does Gordon Baker's "7th Man" Finally Reveal the Truth, Regarding the Storied Ambush of Bonnie & Clyde??

With thanks to Tom-- I've had a chance to read much of Gordon Baker's recently published e-book Retribution. Mr. Baker's account involves newly chronicled revelations said told by a relative (Charles Baker)-- whom he claims was the "7th man" at the ambush site that fateful May morning in 1934. Baker is noted to have been the photographer hired by Frank Hamer-- to film the capture of Bonnie & Clyde. Within this story, Baker was reported to have had cameras rolling, and chronicled the ambush from the time Bonnie & Clyde stopped at the top of the hill to ponder their fate before advancing (a possibility often discussed)-- to the time the wrecker took the Warren car with Bonnie & Clyde's shattered bodies still inside to Arcadia.

The press release regarding Mr. Baker's e-book can be viewed here-- http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=4348 and the book itself, is available from Amazon.com and I suppose other booksellers.

Among many revelations purported which wax contrary to known accounts-- in Baker's version of the ambush, when Prentiss Oakley hits Clyde with the 1st shots and Bonnie realizes Clyde is dead-- Bonnie screams, then shouts out that she's pregnant and tries to surrender. Bonnie's pleas were said to be audible to Baker, whom it's written was positioned to the left of Hamer at the end of the firing line. After a noticeable pause, and with the car now rolling-- the posse opened up with a torrent of gunfire to the horror of Baker-- who's it's said never forgot that ghastly reality.

Charles Baker is also acknowledged to have recovered Bonnie's diary from beneath her seat, and unbeknownst to Captain Hamer-- smuggled it from the scene. Bonnie's diary is noted to have contained entries from January 1st, 1934, to the morning of the ambush. This diary is revealed to have contained a final Bonnie Parker poem, and notes yet another premonition by Bonnie-- who felt she would die that very day. Entries as said existed within Bonnie's diary, as well as Bonnie's poem "Retribution"-- are detailed within this book which bears the same name. Regulars of this blog will recall, that a formerly true Bonnie premonition concerning the death of her sister's children, was documented by Billie Parker Moon within her unpublished manuscript. Bonnie it seems, may have had "the gift" of unworldly psychic insight.


Throngs of those interested in this history have asked for generations, whether the true story of the ambush will ever be told??-- or has it now?? I'm not sure. But as I'm still reading this quite fascinating account-- I would encourage all to hit your favorite book purchasing site, and get a hold of this latest Bonnie & Clyde story. I intend to contact the author with numerous questions I have, which you never know-- may have answers.

I've already read some skeptical comments concerning this new Bonnie & Clyde account-- but then again, when "hasn't" there been skepticism regarding so much to do with Bonnie & Clyde History?? As such, I'm sure the Bonnie & Clyde Skeptics on Call Society-- will be "flush with frenzy" over this one. But I would be one to encourage additional discovery concerning this bold account, rather than foster cynicism based on some blanket feeling of doubt. BTW-- the mythical group mentioned here, is one I feel could exist-- when comprised of those who seem content to question everything about this history-- have no answers and believe there aren't any. My feeling is, this latest ambush account should be questioned and dug into-- with the same fervor the other known accounts have been subjected to.

I'll have more on Retribution, once my reading is done. And as I know it must be asked "what happened to the film??"-- as it's told within Retribution-- Hamer took it. There's a story related elsewhere, that at some point-- Frank Hamer's son may have destroyed many of his father's materials on Bonnie & Clyde?? With professionally shot film of the ambush now said to have existed-- it seems any destroyed Hamer records of Bonnie & Clyde, opens up another ghastly thought as well.

Could the posse's cover up concerning the detention of Ivy Methvin and jurisdictional issues as described by Ted Hinton, be swamped in comparison-- by a reported deliberate killing of a pregnant Bonnie Parker who pled for mercy and received none?? Based on the evidence which exists, I've felt for some time-- that Bonnie could well have been pregnant when killed. However this purported account, makes that thought hit home-- in a sickeningly profound way I'm sure few of us could have imagined.

If indeed there was a long enough pause after Oakley's fatal shots (a pause heard by others from a distance)-- for some within the posse to realize Clyde was dead-- and if Bonnie was heard pleading for her life and the life of her unborn child (which Frank Hamer admitted he believed he knew)-- would that reality be enough to shroud the ambush in the secrecy exhibited all these years??? And could that reality, be enough to cause some hardened lawmen present that day-- to veer away from ever being the same again-- resulting in reported alcohol abuse and in Henderson Jordan's case, his hair being witnessed to have turned white within a short time after the ambush?? Perhaps there would be but few better uses-- for the word "absolutely".

Charles Baker apparently made his claims, in knowing he had little time to live. Then by agreement, public release of this info was intentionally withheld until now. It's noted Mr. Baker didn't feel it right, to take his secrets concerning the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde to the grave. Near death confessions can often be revealing. Whether or not there's enough to go on regarding Retribution and it's "electric" revelations-- I'm sure, is a question that will be asked and vigorously debated. Many questions need to be addressed here-- and I hope to be able to help gain some of those answers.