tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post8042000462260365267..comments2023-11-23T03:26:19.410-05:00Comments on Bonnie and Clyde History: A Bonnie and Clyde Q & A-- Who Were the Loggers Who Witnessed Bonnie & Clyde's Deaths??A. Winston Woodwardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-42386299702799520892016-06-08T21:04:45.589-04:002016-06-08T21:04:45.589-04:00Someone is lying. Someone is covering up. The corr...Someone is lying. Someone is covering up. The correct term is CYA. The question is why? I think those cops got a story to protect themselves, due to shame or fear, and they stuck to it.choopeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09470703884822806803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-71636978521521236062011-01-20T16:47:49.443-05:002011-01-20T16:47:49.443-05:00It would be fascinating to see if Mr. Goldston lef...It would be fascinating to see if Mr. Goldston left any stories behind with his family members - if indeed his family members could be found! I don't know how old Mr. Goldston was at the time of the ambush - I wonder if it's possible that one or more of his riders were related to him in some way, perhaps a son or nephew or brother or cousin? Back in those days, if you were working and there was extra work available, you often put in a good word for your family members in hopes that they would be hired as well, and if you were a good worker, then often your family members were welcome. Since he never told anyone who the riders were, it could be that they were relatives and he wanted to protect them from the curiosity-seekers and perhaps the police and any potential vengeful Barrows or Parkers!<br /><br />Again, this is just speculation on my part, but it may be one of the reasons he never gave the identities of the other men on the truck... <br /><br />It would be awesome to find a family member who might have heard the old stories and who would be willing to share them!BarefootOkieGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07482009763166882520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-64519107308786474222011-01-20T13:38:49.939-05:002011-01-20T13:38:49.939-05:00There's a possibility that Buddy's family ...There's a possibility that Buddy's family could be approached. Buddy Goldston's recollections as told to "Boots" Hinton, were 1st hand stories related 2nd hand. If Buddy's family have insights to share-- that would be the best we could hope for as well, unless written accounts from Buddy or other interviews with him exist.A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-7866558715068542812011-01-20T11:30:39.959-05:002011-01-20T11:30:39.959-05:00There IS always the possibility that these men DID...There IS always the possibility that these men DID discuss the ambush with their friends and families, who are now also choosing to keep silent! It's mind-boggling to think of all the stories of B&C that might be floating around as part of family history or legend ("...remember the time Grandpa helped that young couple change their tire, and they turned out to be Bonnie and Clyde?") but which are not mentioned to anyone else. If such stories exist, it may be that the people who know them honestly don't think that anyone else might be interested in hearing their old stories about long-dead outlaws! Again, the problem with family stories about meeting with B&C is that you never know if someone actually DID meet up with them, or if someone just made up a story about having met them and the family accepted the story as the absolute truth. Being as how B&C were always in the news, I can see how someone might have decided to perk up an otherwise dull supper by saying, "Hey, you know, I helped this young couple change their tire today - and it turned out to be Bonnie and Clyde!" Once someone tells a story a few times, it takes on the ring of truth and becomes part of family legend, without ever actually having happened! <br /><br />Between family stories of genuine meetings with B&C and what people might have made up earlier that has now become a family story, it can be difficult to track things down. How to find people whose family members had genuine encounters with B&C, and how to tell their stories from the family stories that are bogus but which the family firmly believes?<br /><br />It's easy to make up an outlaw encounter story. The only outlaw encounter anyone in my family ever had was when my Aunt Delena spotted Pretty Boy Floyd in some store in Talequah, Oklahoma, and when she pointed her out to my grandma, my grandma told her not to stare at him and to leave him alone and not pester him. Now, my mom's family wasn't given to exaggeration, but can you imagine the details that could have been added to that simple story if they had wanted to impress someone! Aunt Delena could have made it Bonnie and Clyde that she encountered, and she could have made up a story about her actually speaking to them, and perhaps them giving her a dollar or something, and by the time we kids ended up hearing that falsified story and having it presented to us as truth all our lives, we'd probably believe that story as much as we believe the (true) story of her merely seeing Pretty Boy Floyd.<br /><br />When it comes down to family memories, it's hard to tell what's true and what's false, and because the original tellers are likely dead, there's no way to go to the source of the story for verification! Unfortunately, as the years go by, family stories may become all that there is to go on when it comes to answering certain questions...BarefootOkieGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07482009763166882520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-65264479113640786642011-01-20T02:17:58.224-05:002011-01-20T02:17:58.224-05:00The thing I have the hardest time understanding wi...The thing I have the hardest time understanding within all the Buddy Goldston info (and thank God we have what we do from him)-- is trying to figure out why all other witnesses who commented, seemingly have that truck coming from the opposite direction as Buddy appears to state he was traveling??<br /><br />I can sit and ponder that point for some time-- searching for logic that never makes sense. "Boots"' response to my question, is to think perhaps that was part of the cover up. But it was Ted Hinton who revealed his remarkable story of the posse's cover up, and reported agreement-- in letting the original convoluted ambush story stand without benefit of a later revision, until Ted's revelation.<br /><br />As such-- why would Hinton when presented with his golden opportunity to right a wrong-- also have the logging truck approaching from the south?? In allowing for his directional error, the quote from Ambush is-- "In the opposite direction from Clyde's easterly approach, a log truck had cleared a hill and had apparently rolled into a ditch."<br /><br />As Ricky Ricardo would so eloquently say-- someone's got some essplainin' to do!!<br /><br />Not even some diligent sipping of a stellar Bourbon-- seems to make a difference in trying to figure this one out. Had Buddy and the other 2 men on the logging truck been threatened (perhaps at the end of a gun)-- not to talk?? Somehow, I think that's a good possibility. But then why not talk all those years later, after the lawmen were dead?? Perhaps deadly threats early on, followed by fear of the B&C curse later on-- were just too much for these men to overcome, in not allowing us to learn what we needed to discover while they were still alive??<br /><br />There's still an outside chance one of the other 2 men is still alive??-- but how would we ever know?? Someone 20 years old in '34 would be 97 today.<br /><br />Sometimes there's much frustration in B&C History-- within what seem to be the impenetrable walls of a maddening lack of knowledge.A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-43208675632926096192011-01-19T15:20:25.490-05:002011-01-19T15:20:25.490-05:00You know, it's entirely possible that the men ...You know, it's entirely possible that the men on the logging truck were told by posse members to keep quiet or else - I don't know if the other men on the logging truck were black or white, but Mr. Goldston was a black man, and it's rather telling that he spoke of Ted Hinton specifically not treating him with prejudice; the fact that he would mention such a fact just reminds us that back in 1934, black men were often treated badly by the police, and the posse might have intimidated them badly enough that they decided never to tell anyone! That's one explanation...<br /><br />I can also see where fear of reprisal might have played into it as well. Some people apparently thought that either the Barrows or Parkers would take revenge in some way (some blame family members for the deaths of Henry Methvin and his father, although I don't think there's any evidence) and they may well have kept quiet for awhile for fear that something bad would happen to them - but given the behavior of the families after the killings, I don't think they would have been viewed as much of a threat after just a little while. They didn't act like people who wanted revenge, and in fact Ted Hinton kept in touch with the Barrows - Henry supposedly forgave him for having to shoot Clyde, and Ted helped Clyde's brother LC get a couple of jobs.<br /><br />Then there is superstition... you're right, in that part of the country people do tend to be very superstitious, and I'm guessing that back in 1934 it was worse! It wouldn't be at all surprising that men caught up in a situation with bullets flying and people dying might decide to keep quiet because the common wisdom about ghosts is that people who die a violent death without resolving their earthly issues tend to hang around where they died, continuing to pester the living. If these men truly believed in ghosts, why on earth would they go around telling the story of what they'd seen and risk whatever horrible haunting the Barrow Gang could muster? I remember reading in one of the B&C books that supposedly, to this day, on moonless nights, you can hear a Ford V-8 motoring fast down that stretch of road...<br /><br />It could be something as mundane as men not wanting to lose their jobs. It was common for trucks of that era to bear signs, "No riders," because hitchhiking was a common way of getting around. It was also common for a trucker to pick someone up, anyway, with the understanding that they'd drop them off somewhere unseen so no one would get fired. (It was very important, in 1934, not to get fired!) <br /><br />It's too bad - the very first people on the scene, and no information obtained from them!BarefootOkieGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07482009763166882520noreply@blogger.com