tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post2034500810885350124..comments2023-11-23T03:26:19.410-05:00Comments on Bonnie and Clyde History: Billie's Journal-- Revelations Only a Sister Could TellA. Winston Woodwardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-25365390906688876732015-01-18T23:50:01.419-05:002015-01-18T23:50:01.419-05:00Hello Ashlee--
Which early life experiences do ...Hello Ashlee-- <br /><br />Which early life experiences do you feel contributed to Bonnie's decisions in her 20's and why??A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-10688792476614703722015-01-13T20:23:45.434-05:002015-01-13T20:23:45.434-05:00I have done a lot of research on Bonnie, as a coun...I have done a lot of research on Bonnie, as a counsellor I can safely assume that the traumatic early life experiences would have contributed to her circumstances. I am sad that she is portrayed in a negative light and that she was shown no mercy. I only wish that counselling of today was around at the time she was going through sad personal events, things might have turned out different. Bonnie Elizabeth Parker is not a criminal in my eyes, and would defend her honour in a heartbeat.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10379169152279143358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-65712547656836372112010-05-03T14:50:53.662-04:002010-05-03T14:50:53.662-04:00Now your comment BarefootOkieGal is one I can appr...Now your comment BarefootOkieGal is one I can appreciate. It has balance and is well thought out, to include both the hopes and dreams of B&C early on before the die was cast-- and hard realities of their unfortunate end-- where options became realistically few to none. Although you obviously lean toward sympathy for B&C, you also acknowledge their killings in a straight forward manner-- without hesitation or creative framing. As such you address the stark realities of The Barrow Gang's "reign of terror" as it's sometimes described. Many "thanks" for your comment.<br /><br />With comments such as yours, it seems these debates are getting more realistic. Back in the good 'ol days, by the time these things really got going-- there was no evidence Clyde ever killed anyone, and he'd just helped an old lady across the street-- after leading a boy scout troop in the singing of the Star Spangled Banner. My point in politely trying to find realism within these debates "on either side"-- is to stick to the facts, and avoid letting boundless passion color this history in ways it shouldn't.<br /><br />I don't feel there's much doubt, that between 4 and 6 are the likely number of deaths personally attributable to Clyde Barrow. By his "own" admission this number was 6, and that boast was made prior to the Grapevine murders-- so his total could well be more. And as far as premeditation, those particular murders were apparently targeted for Ray Hamilton and likely Mary O'Dare, whom Clyde seemed to hate equally as much. If Ray and Mary had happened upon Bonnie, Clyde and Henry Methvin as planned that Easter Sunday, instead of the 2 motorcycle officers-- history may have been recorded differently.<br /><br />Anyway, from the viewpoint of culpability-- as the leader of The Barrow Gang, someone would need to explain how in pulling the trigger himself-- or acting as an accessory, why Clyde couldn't be held responsible legally for all The Barrow Gang killings ie: murders ie: forcefully ending someone's life??-- however you wish to term it.<br /><br />Cold blooded-- warm blooded-- the end result is the same for the victims. In some ways, Clyde could be considered a victim. But where does that leave us in considering Clyde at that point as one live victim-- versus more than a dozen dead ones. Again, where is the historical balance??-- and one could argue, who more deserves the justice??<br /><br />He who prays, knows right from wrong and has a conscience-- continues to kill because he has no choice?? OK I've got it?!? But whatever happened to B&C atoning for their sins?? I would think when you follow the path of an outlaw, you give up any sense of normalcy-- being able to see your mom when you want and having many things both ways. Costa Rica-- suicide??-- there are a couple of choices for the position Clyde found himself in-- which could have saved lives.A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-1891326609868133052010-05-03T12:11:45.321-04:002010-05-03T12:11:45.321-04:00I'm usually capable of seeing both sides of an...I'm usually capable of seeing both sides of any situation, and one of the reason that I've always been fascinated by Bonnie and Clyde is that they have so many facets - there is no denying that Clyde was a killer; whether his killings can be considered premeditated or not, the fact is that he was always prepared to shoot it out, and that level of preparedness indicates that he fully intended to do all he could to keep from being captured. Cold-blooded killers, however, don't usually just kidnap people and take them for a ride; I don't see Clyde killing someone unless he felt it was necessary. I don't think he killed for kicks - he killed out of necessity, but it was his lifestyle that necessitated the killings. I don't think Bonnie ever killed anyone, but she did willingly accompany a man whom she knew would kill people if the situation arose. I do take their upbringing into consideration, and I do realize that after a certain point, they very well may have considered trying to live somewhere else and "go straight," but I think that they just did not have any real idea how to go about it. From some of Bonnie's writings, I get the idea she had a fatalistic view of things - she knew she was going to die with Clyde, and she felt that was their fate. She probably considered it a rather romantic fate. Yes, they were criminals, and Clyde had a hot temper and was quick on the trigger, but they also had qualities that everyone can recognize as being positive, if only one goes looking for them. They got a lot of bad press, and were accused of a lot of things that they didn't do, but I don't think they were ALL bad nor ALL good, and I don't make any excuses for what they did, but I do feel sympathy for them because I believe Clyde's situation escalated until he believed all he could do was to stay on the run (which meant killing if he had to) and I believe that Bonnie went with him initially hoping that they would be able to settle down and live a nice life together. To see her set down her hopes for them in her early letters is rather heartbreaking - these are not the words of a woman who wants her criminal boyfriend to get free so they can go shoot up the country and be shot up themselves in the end. I see the words of a young woman hoping that the new man she's met and fallen for will somehow manage to pull himself up and become an upstanding citizen, so that they could share a happy life somewhere, with perhaps a child or two. <br /><br />.BarefootOkieGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07482009763166882520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-34687596868243155302010-05-03T00:22:41.342-04:002010-05-03T00:22:41.342-04:00I can see that my latest comment calls for further...I can see that my latest comment calls for further clarification.<br /><br />Good deeds towards some, in no way justifys - or out-weighs - the killing of others. It was never my intention to imply that it did. To believe so would be absurd.<br /><br />The point that I was trying to make is this. Clyde and Bonnie were not monsters. They knew right from wrong, and they had a conscience. They felt guilt and remorse for their wrong-doings. I think that in large part because of this, they tried to compensate the best they could in other aspects of their lives.<br /><br />Clyde never wanted to kill anyone. He said it made him feel "sick inside" to take a life. And according to W.D. Jones, Clyde prayed on a regular basis. <br /><br />So why then, did the killings continue? Simply put, to avoid being killed themselves - for as long as possible. Both Clyde and Bonnie were well aware that to surrender meant certain death. For Clyde Barrow, going down in a hail of bullets was preferrable to going back to prison to await execution. Although not a killer herself, Bonnie willingly accepted his fate as her own. <br /><br />So "it's them or me" became the basis for their mentality. I do not agree that Clyde was a "murderer". To my way of thinking, murder is an act of premeditation; something one plans to do. And anyone capable of planning the death of another human being is "cold-blooded".<br /><br />Clyde didn't kill 13 people - or 12 people - or even close to that. I doubt he personally killed even half that many. But whatever that number may be, these killings occured within the context of a "gun battle", not a "murder". In most (if not all) instances, Clyde knew he was about to be killed, if he did not pull the trigger first.<br /><br />This is not to say that I think that what they did was right; it wasn't. I am only trying to explain the mind-set from which they operated. All that transpired was very obviously a great tragedy for all their victims - but I also believe that Clyde and Bonnie were victims, as well. Under more favorable circumstances, I think they would have led far better lives.Shelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-44967744741127430612010-05-02T15:36:17.941-04:002010-05-02T15:36:17.941-04:00It's certainly true, that the saga of B&C ...It's certainly true, that the saga of B&C is laced with wonderful examples of human kindness & touching anecdotes-- as Billie's priceless remembrances so tenderly illustrate. It's also true that The Depression Years were uniquely difficult and passionate times, which resulted in the advancement of both good and evil.<br /><br />However, when those who support Bonnie & Clyde considerably more than not, express comment in sugar coated terms which perhaps lessen stark realities-- then it may be time to strike a better balance, and remember that the folks with the good hearts and those around them-- were responsible for at least 13 murders. These ultimate acts of violence, forever altered the lives of dozens if not hundreds of family members and friends of the slain-- not to mention, contributing negatively to an already scourged and ravaged 1930's society.<br /><br />I would agree that even the worst in society, likely have redeeming qualities. But I suppose it's fair to ask which carry more weight-- acts of kindness or acts of murder?? As I see it, the difficulty lies in sorting out moral truth-- when both negative & positive extremes are evident within the same individuals, who seem so easy for so many to like.<br /><br />My point has been, there was a reality to this history which in looking back now-- we can likely view as not being born of either extreme. B&C weren't upstanding citizens, and B&C weren't always cold blooded killers. I'd like to see those on each side this passionate debate, be respectful of the middle ground, where the truth likely lies.<br /><br />I am equally critical, of those who factor in "nothing" from the realities of The Depression-- in allowing for some most unique tweaking of the social mores of those times-- which gave rise to lawlessness, social rebellion and an increase in violent crime. These are the purveyors of Justice-- where little reasoning matters, and death for B&C couldn't come fast enough.<br /><br />For those new to the blog, don't worry-- as Shelley and I've revisited these ideas so much, her comments and my replies are old friends. Within our respective positions, we'll have some polite but serious fun with this. She and others know what to expect from me, concerning my views of this history. I can almost hear the sounds of her typing from Arkansas. I'm not sure what to make of the Clyde was remorseful angle, and doing what he could to atone for his sins?? Perhaps that would include atoning for taking lives?? I'm not sure that would fly-- if explained to the families who lost loved ones to The Barrow Gang?? How "do" you make up for taking a life??-- or 2 or 4 or 6 or 8 or 10 or more lives?? I'm just not sure, how that would work.<br /><br />In searching for that elusive B&C historical "balance"-- the B&C centrist viewpoint soapbox, is closed for now.A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-81944975387729095312010-05-01T05:41:11.877-04:002010-05-01T05:41:11.877-04:00As some here know, I have long supported - and oft...As some here know, I have long supported - and often defended - the view that Bonnie (and yes, even Clyde!) had that "tender, loving and caring" side to them. <br /><br />As such, I find Billie Jeans's journal entries most gratifying to read. Her words only reinforce my long-held beliefs about their character. And Okie Gal - your observations are right on!<br /><br />I believe that B&C suffered great remorse for their crimes - and did what they could to try to atone for their sins whenever - and how ever - possible. The love and loyalty they shared with their families is legendary, but their kindness and generosity with friends, acquaintances - and even total strangers - is notable, as well. It's so nice to read about their positive qualities, for a change!Shelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-15928800903267699312010-04-30T13:39:22.095-04:002010-04-30T13:39:22.095-04:00I am looking forward to further revelations! It i...I am looking forward to further revelations! It is such a treasure to have a description of someone in the words of one of their closest family members...<br /><br />It's so very touching to see the tender sides of people considered to be such horrible criminals. To read Bonnie's words of concern for her mother is almost heartbreaking, and apparently her sister took her words to heart.<br /><br />Some people look at so-called "bad guys" and assume that their image of them is the only one. It's truly a treasure to see another side - a tender, loving and caring side, willing to take risks to bring some happiness into a child's life!BarefootOkieGalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07482009763166882520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-80024221680451560502010-04-30T11:45:45.135-04:002010-04-30T11:45:45.135-04:00Hello Russ--
I am rarely astounded, as I am now i...Hello Russ--<br /><br />I am rarely astounded, as I am now in reading through Billie's writings concerning Bonnie. There are wonderful personal insights, and absolute treasures of stories-- within Billie's remembrances of her sister. I only wish there were more than just 14 pages.<br /><br />Through Billie's writings, and some thankful personal family interjection-- it's also now clear who destroyed Bonnie's remaining belongings after the ambush. To answer thousands of questions on this subject made over the decades-- yes many of Bonnie's belongings did survive her. But unfortunately, they were indeed destroyed by a family member. And apparently not because the pain was so great in keeping them. More on this now revealed individual and story later.A. Winston Woodwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305418204334632255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5699209633460837182.post-68682412395126454802010-04-30T08:33:41.293-04:002010-04-30T08:33:41.293-04:00Winston,
Let me be the first to say how much I l...Winston, <br /><br />Let me be the first to say how much I like being able to read excerpts from Billie's Journal. It's really wild how Clyde would consider going to all the risk of finding a trailer and picking a pony up, as hot as they were. Wow. Many thanks to you, Rhea Leen, and the Parker family for these "family stories".<br /><br />RussRuss1934noreply@blogger.com